tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post9043401097400826807..comments2023-09-17T10:57:35.535+03:00Comments on Ukrainiana: Medvedev, Yanukovych Pissed in TranslationTarashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18139892487573795049noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post-77576167309193939652010-03-15T17:41:37.658+02:002010-03-15T17:41:37.658+02:00Khabar,
Comparing them illustrates my point on e...Khabar, <br /><br />Comparing them illustrates my point on evolution. <br /><br />Btw, as you probably know, Mikhaylo Lomonosov would have been expelled for falsifying his college admission application had Kyiv-born Feofan Prokopovich not intervened for him. Had Prokopovich not done so, Lomonosov would have never become the scientist and writer he became. <br /><br />Likewise, had Russian painter Karl Briulov not painted that portrait, Shevchenko would have remained a serf. (I can only add that our alliance with Russia under the Treaty of Pereyaslav strengthened serfdom in Ukraine.) <br /><br />Yes, Nikitin used the term <i>Rus</i>. That toponym remained in use centuries after Rus had ceased to exist politically. <br /><br />Born in Tver — a city that suffered from Moscow’s attacks and combined Krivichs with Finns — Nikitin could hardly use <i>Rus</i> in an ethnographic sense. He clearly used it in a geographic sense. The polity in Moscow went by the official name of the <i>Grand Duchy of Moscow</i>, or <i>Muscovy</i>, as Westerners called it.<br /><br />Again, it’s important that we avoid the Rus=Russia fallacy. When Nestor the Chronicler described Kyiv as “мт҃(и) городом̑ Рус̑скымъ,” he meant Rus and Rus only. Russia didn’t exist at the time. Moscow didn’t exist at the time. Suzdal and Novgorod did exist (as separate entities) and became part of the Grand Duchy of Moscow in 1392 and 1478 respectively.<br /><br />As Moscow began expanding and glorifying itself, <i>Russia</i> gained currency in Europe, thanks to the rebranding efforts of Peter I the Great.<br /><br />Thus, by no logic can we apply “<a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0209/Ukraine-heads-back-into-the-arms-of-Mother-Russia" rel="nofollow">Mother Russia</a>” to Ukraine — lest we forget the timeline:)<br /><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />You’re absolutely right! We need to keep knocking. <br /><br />Enjoy this <a href="http://www.infoukes.com/faq/kyiv-2/" rel="nofollow">pro-Kiev </a> article dating back to 1995!<br /><br /><br />Lingüista,<br /><br />In post-Soviet Ukraine, language defines identity. For centuries, my language existed as a second-class language (“dialect”) whose speakers had to be assimilated, deported, starved, shot, shamed, but never respected.<br /><br />Today, I respect every language I speak and I expect others to respect my language.Tarashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18139892487573795049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post-1710965963547375842010-03-15T00:43:52.445+02:002010-03-15T00:43:52.445+02:00I think the similarity between Russian and Ukraini...I think the similarity between Russian and Ukrainian always allows people to come with the "it's surzhyk" or "it's just a dialect" argument. The same is true in other areas (e.g. Portuguese-Spanish-"Portunhol").<br /><br />But let them ponder on this: how can you tell if Russian isn't simply a Ukrainian dialect -- or Ukrainian "contaminated" by some external source, like Finno-Ugric languages (and thus some sort of Balto-Finnic-Slavic "surzhyk")?<br /><br />We should take languages as they come and as their speakers speak them, not try to shame others into not liking their mother tongue just because we don't like it. Projection does not science make.Lingüistahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327147408198046253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post-42542270937662241862010-03-12T11:40:05.994+02:002010-03-12T11:40:05.994+02:00Many write it Kyiv nowadays: http://kyiv.of-cour.s...Many write it Kyiv nowadays: http://kyiv.of-cour.se/<br /><br />As we keep on educating the world all will turn good in 10 year time.М. К.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16020862938800495085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post-4450195423321782342010-03-12T04:09:22.192+02:002010-03-12T04:09:22.192+02:00Lomonosov is a hundred years older than Shevchenko...Lomonosov is a hundred years older than Shevchenko. Why do you compare them?<br /><br />Afanasiy Nikitin being a traveller of the 15th century used Arabic, Persian and Turkic words and knew these languages pretty well. He wrote his diary with Cyrillic transliteration, though. Nikitin called himself Russian and his country "Rus", not Moscovia. Alas. :)khabarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post-929938295620314052010-03-11T14:28:45.501+02:002010-03-11T14:28:45.501+02:00Ropi,
That’s a fun subject:)!
Khabar,
Grammar ...Ropi,<br /><br />That’s a fun subject:)!<br /><br /><br />Khabar,<br /><br />Grammar rules exist in modern Ukrainian just as they do in modern Russian.<br /><br /><a href="http://durdom.in.ua/uk/main/article/article_id/1057.phtml" rel="nofollow">Languages evolve over time</a>. By today’s standards, some of Lomonosov’s works can be described as surzhyk as well: <br /><br />Не <a href="http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%8E_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%8E_%28%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD/%D0%9B%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%29" rel="nofollow">медливши нимало</a><br />К себе его пустил.<br />Увидел, что крилами<br />Он машет за спиной,<br /><br /><a href="http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%8F,_%D1%87%D1%82%D0%BE_%D0%BD%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BC_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B5_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B5_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%85%3F_%28%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB/%D0%9B%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%29" rel="nofollow">Дивишься</a>, что не дам тебе стихов моих?<br />Боюсь, чтобы ты мне не подарил своих.Tarashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18139892487573795049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post-84854799793521742722010-03-10T04:34:19.316+02:002010-03-10T04:34:19.316+02:00The Ukrainian language standards is something vagu...The Ukrainian language standards is something vague.<br />Even Taras Shevchenko, the No.1 Ukrainian poet, wrote his poems in vocabulary that today may be seen the surjik, a mix of Ukrainian and Russian.khabarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19297350.post-85969011476611710982010-03-08T16:56:47.186+02:002010-03-08T16:56:47.186+02:00Oh, weird. Tonight I am going to write about how t...Oh, weird. Tonight I am going to write about how translator programs translate. :PRopihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17214991557644729165noreply@blogger.com